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SDL / CAC Cup - Forfeit or No? Need unbiased opinions
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November 25, 2019
9:59 am
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So we have a decision that needs to be made... We can't leave it up to the person doing the scorekeeping this season because it involves his team (Sydorko).

 

Scenario: Five Guys (my team) & Pick & Roll Sushi (Sydorko's team) are tied at 7-2. Sydorko's team vs us are 1 and 1 but they beat us by more so they get the tie break.

 

Issue: Sydorko only had 2 of their guys this weekend and had to get 2 fill-ins which by the rules is a forfeit. However, Sydorko's team had 5 players to start the season. A guy who was killing them in both of their losses stopped showing up 4 weeks into the season roughly. Additionally, their 4th guy stopped showing up and Sydorko said came to only 3 games.

 

Why this is important: The 1st place team for the regular season is SDL makes it to the CAC Cup. Also, there is a difference between the quality of the opponent between teams seeded 3 and 4 for SDL purposes.

 

Forfeit or Not: Technically, the game this week with 2 players is a forfeit, but as listed above, there are some extenuating circumstances.

 

Tibbs or SDL ballers: what are your thoughts on a Sydorko forfeit and 2 seed or giving them the win and they take the 1 seed?

November 25, 2019
10:42 am
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Had this issue before, no matter what even if both caps agree, 2 players is an auto forfeit, your lucky the ref even officiated  the game 

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November 25, 2019
11:33 am
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My argument here is that our absences are a result of overall league management issues:

  1. SDL was not a full league and as the last pick team, we were only going to have 5 players
  2. The 5th player I drafted dropped before the league started and Tibbs gave us a random guy
  3. This random guy fell off the face of the earth and we lost all contact with him

We had to play the season with 4 guys (no subs) because we drafted someone who was listed on the draft board but was then taken off, while other teams (except Steiner) had a full 6 man roster. Then we were forced to take someone who ended up quitting after two games. So my argument here is that our absences are not solely a team issue, but something that stems higher up at a league management level.

November 25, 2019
12:07 pm
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Mismanagement of draft boards and leagues is as much a part of CAC as the games on the court. The rules are clear about the following:

Any team that shows up with 2 or fewer players from the team roster forfeits the current game
Any game that is started with 2 or fewer players from the team roster will be a forfeit regardless if another player shows up after the game has started
Every effort is made to ensure that each game is played, so other players will be added to the forfeiting team and the game will be played and stats recorded

So Zaks team is the number one seed since Sydorkos team technically forfeited regardless of the fact that a game was played with fill ins and stats were recorded

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November 25, 2019
12:24 pm
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Not Tibbs or an SDL baller but ... what about a play-in game for the CAC cup spot? 

November 25, 2019
12:35 pm
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are you fucking kidding me with this bull-shit.. those rules are made with the assumption that each team has 6 players (which we clearly dont)

our 5th showed up to the first 2x games, then dropped off the face of planet earth

our 4th has showed up to a total of 3x games.. our last 5x games have been played with a fill in

our 3rd missed his first game of the season

why are being punished for shit out of our control.. this league barely had enough players for 6 teams, but a 7th  team was forced in regardless

  -there was a 3 v 3 played this season

  -the amount of subs showing up each week was laughable, pretty much every team was playing without one

edit: just for good measure, the stats for our previous 2x games haven't been tracked since there was NO ONE to do the bloody score-board/stats (literally the fucking ref was the one running over to do the score in between plays)

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November 25, 2019
12:41 pm
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I hear what you're saying Sydorko.

 

My biggest point against it is you had your top 3 players still on your team. In SDL (no offense to anyone) if you have your top 3 players, you have your best team. I would imagine any team that had their top 3 guys all season would have been in a great spot.

 

Also, is the 2 seed so bad? You are still in the playoffs.

 

May need a Tibbs official ruling here.

November 25, 2019
5:41 pm
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Sydorko said
are you fucking kidding me with this bull-shit.. those rules are made with the assumption that each team has 6 players (which we clearly dont)

our 5th showed up to the first 2x games, then dropped off the face of planet earth

our 4th has showed up to a total of 3x games.. our last 5x games have been played with a fill in

our 3rd missed his first game of the season

why are being punished for shit out of our control.. this league barely had enough players for 6 teams, but a 7th  team was forced in regardless

  -there was a 3 v 3 played this season

  -the amount of subs showing up each week was laughable, pretty much every team was playing without one

edit: just for good measure, the stats for our previous 2x games haven't been tracked since there was NO ONE to do the bloody score-board/stats (literally the fucking ref was the one running over to do the score in between plays)  

If Sydorko had to score his own games you guys suck and he deserves the 1 seed just based on that. 

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November 26, 2019
10:07 am
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I'm new to the league, but I'd say that based on the circumstances Pick & Roll Sushi should be the #1 seed. They were already at a disadvantage only having 5 players drafted - and at a further disadvantage by having a drafted player dropped and a random added - leaving them with only 4 drafted players.

With only 4 drafted players, in order to qualify for a game to count they needed to have 75% of their drafted players show up for 9 straight weeks, which is a tall order in a Saturday rec league. If you have 6 drafted players on a roster you can get away all season with having just 50% of your players show up, and still qualify as an official game. 

To Zak's last point - I don't think the semantics of whether they had their top 3 players or their worst 3 players should factor into the decision at all. 

The problem is that the rules clearly state it's a forfeit as Mazz quoted above, and it sets a bad precedent to pick and choose when the rules apply. My thought would be that the commissioner makes a final ruling, and if it's in favor of P&RS make an addendum to the rules that can be pointed to in the future when these situations occur (ie; a rule changing the numbers needed to qualify for a game to a percentage rather than a straight number to satisfy when teams have less players drafted or something else to a similar effect).   

November 26, 2019
2:22 pm
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PaulLagno said
I'm new to the league, but I'd say that based on the circumstances Pick & Roll Sushi should be the #1 seed. They were already at a disadvantage only having 5 players drafted - and at a further disadvantage by having a drafted player dropped and a random added - leaving them with only 4 drafted players.

With only 4 drafted players, in order to qualify for a game to count they needed to have 75% of their drafted players show up for 9 straight weeks, which is a tall order in a Saturday rec league. If you have 6 drafted players on a roster you can get away all season with having just 50% of your players show up, and still qualify as an official game. 

To Zak's last point - I don't think the semantics of whether they had their top 3 players or their worst 3 players should factor into the decision at all. 

The problem is that the rules clearly state it's a forfeit as Mazz quoted above, and it sets a bad precedent to pick and choose when the rules apply. My thought would be that the commissioner makes a final ruling, and if it's in favor of P&RS make an addendum to the rules that can be pointed to in the future when these situations occur (ie; a rule changing the numbers needed to qualify for a game to a percentage rather than a straight number to satisfy when teams have less players drafted or something else to a similar effect).     

There's some saying about the purity of youth that applies here, just modified to say the purity of someone who has yet to experience how the CAC/Tibbs operates. I remember having that optimism. 

No chance that Tibbs updates a rule. 

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November 26, 2019
3:48 pm
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Frongi said

No chance that Tibbs updates a rule.   

or that he responds.....

November 27, 2019
9:11 am
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I think given that Sydorko got Tibbs'd ™ then the forfeit rule shouldn't apply in this context.

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